WHO WE ARE: Finally finding fine food

Wednesday May 9, 2007 04:08 PM

Who We Are

A column about Australia by David Dale, published in The Sun-Herald, 2/11/2008
"Never eat in a restaurant that smells of truffle oil" is the latest addition to a set of eating-out guidelines that started 20 years ago with "Never eat in a restaurant that revolves or floats". After certain news reports last week, perhaps I should add "Never eat chocolate gelato (or, for that matter, lemon gelato) in a restaurant where you have previously complained about the kitchen".

But that wouldn't quite fit with the purpose of the list. The original idea was to guide travellers in search of a decent meal in an unfamiliar town or suburb. There are certain impressions you can form -- long before you've had a chance to complain about anything -- that will save you from finding yourself in the kind of place where the gelato might contain an unpleasant surprise.

With the help of readers, I've been updating the list every couple of years, and the time has come again to seek your input. How the restaurant rules have changed over two decades offers a fascinating insight into the evolution of Australia's eating habits.

This was the first list:
1. Never eat in a restaurant that revolves or floats.
2. Never eat in a restaurant that is more than 20 metres above the ground.
3. Never eat in your hotel dining room.
4. Never eat in a restaurant that is recommended in any free publication you find in your hotel room -- even if the recommendation appears on a different page from the advertisement.
5. A restaurant with a pepper grinder on every table is likely to be good (as opposed to a restaurant where the waiters thrust a metre long pepper grinder in your ear).
6. A restaurant with an accordionist is likely to be bad.
7. There is no such thing as a bad Thai restaurant.
8. There is no such thing as a good Mexican restaurant in Australia.
9. Restaurants offering "cordon blue", "surf 'n' turf", "thousand island dressing", "Vienna schnitzel" and "avocado seafood" are unlikely to be state of the art.
10. The longer the menu, the poorer the food -- except in Chinese restaurants.

In the list's second incarnation, I added these ingredients ...
11. A menu that uses more than 20 words to describe each dish signifies a kitchen lacking in confidence.
12. A restaurant where the waiters introduce themselves ("Hi, my name is Jason and I'll be your server tonight") is unlikely to offer value for money. Ditto a restaurant where the waiter compliments you on your choice of dish.
13. A restaurant in which one wall is covered with signed black and white photographs of celebrities is unlikely to be state of the art, even if the celebrities include Daryl Somers and Kyle Sandilands.
14. Restaurants advertising karaoke are unlikely to be gastronomic temples, but this will become less important as you become less sober.
15. Restaurants that display their menus outside are likely to be more interesting than those that don't (and also make the application of these theories much easier).

Since I first made the list, I've eaten in good Australo-Mexican restaurants and encountered one bad Thai place (raw onion in everything). I've found great restaurants in hotels and on top of skyscrapers. The coolest places of the Noughties serve surf 'n' turf, in the form of pork belly with scallops or prawns. And I'd love to find a schnitzel, even if it came with an accordionist.

What bugs me now is the lazy chef's habit of splashing truffle oil over everything. Australia grows its own truffles these days, and in the winter, it can be pleasant to have a black fungus grated over a bowl of pasta. But "truffle oil" is fake - the flavour comes from a chemical added to the olive oil, which coats your palate and makes the rest of the meal taste as if you are eating in a petrol station.

So when you're standing hungrily outside an unfamiliar eatery, check the menu and put your nose inside. That will give you fair warning, long before the manager arrives with the complimentary gelato.

To add your restaurant rules, go to Comments

David Dale is the author of Who We Are -- A snapshot of Australia today (Allen and Unwin). To discuss Australian attitudes, go to http://blogs.sunherald.com.au/whoweare.

COMMENTS

10 years ago I used to work near Riverwood and there was a Pie shop there, that sold pies that were the best pies i've ever had in Australia (including Adelaide). However the shop has gone since then, does anybody know what Happened to it? Most Pies in Sydney are Horrid crap with rubbery bits of meat in them.

by davo on November 01, 2008 at 11:05 PM

If you like Malaysian food the rule is: Never trust a restaurant recommendation from a Singaporean.

by allrite on November 02, 2008 at 12:07 AM

Never eat in a restaurant where there are no other customers in it, particularly if it is a Chinese restaurant and there are no Chinese patrons, or Italian restaurant and there are no Italians, etc....

by Shaz on November 02, 2008 at 01:16 AM

Quote "There is no such thing as a bad Thai restaurant."
Please where do you get this crap from. Most Thai restaurants in Sydney are very very average.

DD replies: Average, yes, but that is not the same as bad.

by Taub on November 02, 2008 at 04:28 AM

never eat in a restaurant:
with paper napkins,
that makes you "hold onto your knives and forks" for the second course,
that asks you after 5 seconds of delivering your meal "how were the first few bites", and then keep asking how your meal was,
that delivers the courses on top of one another then cant deliver the bill,
that continually tops up your almost full wine glass,
that picks up the wine glass to pour wine into it,
where waiters make a big deal of smelling the wine cork and leave it on the table for you to do the same,
that dont have a salt grinder,
and finally that has no idea of what rare, medium and well done means.

by Nigel on November 02, 2008 at 05:33 AM

Davo, the pie shop at Oatley, which is not far from Riverwood, makes brilliant pies. Go early as the queue stretches out the door at lunchtime. The lamb, pepper and steak diane varieties are my favourites.

by anicka on November 02, 2008 at 05:39 AM

I would love to add the rule "Only eat in restaurants where you've seen a clean, well-run kitchen and the chef is proud to serve his/her food" but that is not practical. Chefs don't like customers snooping. My rules are "try to see the kitchen before ordering", and "if the food is not good, never go back". I also refer to review websites before dining, although they are not always reliable either. Really one just has to live dangerously.....and hope for the best. Then stick to it if you find it.

by Darvo on November 02, 2008 at 06:23 AM

i live in europe, so eating in a chinese with too many young white people is a bad sign.

by jeremy on November 02, 2008 at 06:37 AM

NEVER EAT AT A RESTAURANT THAT EMPLOYS A SKINNY CHEF !!!

by Barclay Wade on November 02, 2008 at 06:39 AM

Never eat in a restaurant that you have passed by when closed and chairs have been stacked on tables or even worse, knapkins and cutlery still there from the night before....

by Ali on November 02, 2008 at 07:00 AM

Never eat in a restaurant that prints the telephone number of the Poisons Information Centre on the back of its menus.

by Sarty on November 02, 2008 at 07:01 AM

Never order "brushetta", "Ceasar salad" or anything dressed with a "vinegarette". If a restaurant can't even spell a dish correctly what are the odds they can cook it correctly.
And here's one that will probably spark some debate but ...
The food critics are usually right

by Snob on November 02, 2008 at 07:09 AM

The best pies can be found on the Great Western Hwy in the Blue Mountains. Great old-fashioned hot pies with amazing fillings.

by Yum on November 02, 2008 at 07:34 AM

The absolute BEST THAI restaurant is opposite the Capitol Theatre in Sydney. I went there with friends a few weeks ago after seeing Billy Elliott and it was divine. You can see the food being made as you stand and wait for your seat at the door. It was the freshest thai I've ever tasted. The waiters get a bit carried away with their jugs of water but hey better than waiting dying of thirst in other places. The place was packed and lots of Asians eating in there which was a good sign. O and it was very reasonably priced. I will go back there, ever coming from the mountains!

by Leanne on November 02, 2008 at 07:40 AM

I worry about restaurants in hotels. The staff attitude can be lax with the churn of customers. I've heard disturbing rumors about staff taking revenge on complaint customers in pretty nasty underhand unhygenic ways - and it becomes a kind of sport among peers. I figure either don't complain or send food back OR compalin and leave. The whole gelato episode sounds, looks and smells like sucha scenario. I bet the staff know or suspect what happened there....

by Traveller on November 02, 2008 at 07:42 AM

unfortunately now there seems to be plenty of bad thai restaurants! What used to be guaranteed to be fresh intersting lively ingredients is now all too often muddy flavours, an overdose of oil and sugar and too much poor quality meat with not enough vegies. Even more annoying when its from places that used to be good!

by rosi on November 02, 2008 at 07:52 AM

Davo - try Oatley Village Pie Shop about 5 minutes walk from Oatley station.

by James on November 02, 2008 at 08:09 AM

Always go to the toilet to wash your hands first. If the toilet is not clean, then expect the kitchen not to be. I also avoid restaurants that have grannies plastic flowers in vases on the table.

by Mrs Flowerpot on November 02, 2008 at 08:15 AM

You should change 13. to : A restaurant in which one wall is covered with signed black and white photographs of celebrities is unlikely to be state of the art, PARTICULARLY if the celebrities include Daryl Somers and Kyle Sandilands.

by abc on November 02, 2008 at 08:16 AM

Choose the most crowded restaurant. This has always worked for me, except once in Spain. We (two single women) had a nice meal. The locals were extremely friendly. At the end of the meal, when we were escorted out by the management, past a crowd of men standing at the bar, we finally realised the restaurant was in the red-light district.

by margaret on November 02, 2008 at 08:24 AM

Responding to Shaz, above: That is not true. I saw heaps of restaurants that offer their traditional foods but not many or any people from their background dining there.
Do try any restaurant that is over-crowded with people, there must be some good food in there!

by Paul on November 02, 2008 at 08:34 AM

Never, ever eat in a restaurant that has streaky front windows. In a resaurant you have't eaten in before, always check out the toilets before ordering a meal.

by roberto on November 02, 2008 at 08:34 AM

Some of the best Australian meat pies I've ever had have come from an "Australian Bakery" in Atlanta, Georgia....USA
The family running it is from Victoria.

by Peter Fanelli on November 02, 2008 at 08:46 AM

Avoid a restaurant that: takes guests to their table and allows them to remove their own coats and put them on the back of their chairs;tells seated guests that they need to move to a different table; provides menus on thin pieces of white A4 paper; gives one guest at the table a different menu; does not replace the menu given in error; whose waiter disappears frequently and stinks of cigarette smoke; provides a dish whose predominant flavour is raw onion; provides dishes that have no flavour; does ALL of these things and more in one memorable event and charges close to one hat prices.

by Susan Baxter on November 02, 2008 at 08:52 AM

Never order beef noodles (pho) or anything Vietnamese from a restaurant advertising itself as specialising in "Vietnamese, Thai & Chinese food".

by Paul on November 02, 2008 at 09:10 AM

Why eat out at all after seeing all those filthy diseased restaraunts on Ramsays Kitchens, various documentaries and coogee gate. In OZ our women expect their men to have a lot more money than they do. So why don't our woman provide some real value to their men and family...do your job and learn to cook!!

by john boy on November 02, 2008 at 09:10 AM

Never eat in a place where the tables are stacked one on one during closing hours and the gobbets of anti-smoking chewing gum (distinctive pastel colours) are clearly visible to you outside -- but apparently not to wait/stacking staff -- stuck to the underside of the tables. Ugh.

by Diana on November 02, 2008 at 09:14 AM

After the gelato fiasco, I think you only really need one rule:
Never eat in restaurants. Period.

by Alan on November 02, 2008 at 09:16 AM

Viet Hoa - Northbridge Perth - was some of the best Vietnamese food I've ever had, and there was always a line out the door at peak times. Also plenty of Asians there...Ate there regularly and never dissapointed.

by Dazza on November 02, 2008 at 09:23 AM

Never eat twice in a restaurant where the serving staff auction off the dishes when they are brought to the table ('Veal Parmigiana! Who ordered the Veal Parmigiana!)
A service professional should know to which seat at the table each dish should be delivered.
It's a simple thing, but imho, its absence undermines the credibility of the restaurant.

by Ken on November 02, 2008 at 09:29 AM

Snob, I would not put too much importance on the spelling. My son is a chef who cannot spell. Even his mash potato is out of this world. He is head chef in a restaurant that has an open kitchen.
My best advice is if you have not been to the restaurant before and it is not an open kitchen, try to sit or walk past the kitchen. Try to look in and if the kitchen is not clean or is disorganised (taking into account the work load), leave the restaurant.
Also watch for eatieries of any type that buys in products, such as sauces, dressings, pre-prepared foods or foods cooked off site.

by cb on November 02, 2008 at 09:32 AM

Poogee Bay Hotel?

Yeah, I know. Shit joke.

by msann2000 on November 02, 2008 at 09:34 AM

Never eat in a restaurant where there are too many uncleared tables - it probably means they are understaffed and you won't be served quickly.

I'll also agree with the toilet thing. I recently spent over an hour waiting for a meal at a restaurant and eventually had to use the toilet - which was filthy. We bailed out immediately afterwards.

And here's a plug for Azteca's mexican restaurant in Randwick. I haven't lived in Sydney for 10 years and we always visit when we go back.

by Karen on November 02, 2008 at 09:36 AM

Most Chinese restaurants in Australia are unclean and overpriced.

by Catherine Tan on November 02, 2008 at 09:38 AM

Nigel: the knife and fork rule applies perhaps in Australia, but in many local French bistros this is de rigueur and some gems can be found.

John Boy: well, I was going to say something but I'm speechless. I thought this degree of chauvanism was dead in Australia.

by Gourmande on November 02, 2008 at 09:47 AM

Only eat at restaurants where the staff are anally retentive!

by Caligula on November 02, 2008 at 09:55 AM

I know people in the restaurant business and I KNOW that staff takes revenge on complaining customers using various bodily fluids and excrement to contaminate the food. It's a big laugh, all for their revenge. Of course it shouldn't happen and if a manager knew about it, they'd lose their jobs, but none will tell. And in some cases, it's the manager or assistant who does the contamination, if they are annoyed by the customer.
Bottom line, never, ever, eat at a restaurant that allows or encourages employees to get away with something vile aimed at customers.

by Sunny on November 02, 2008 at 10:03 AM

You want the best Italian Restaurant in Sydney? Particularly Pizza? Go To Roccos Restaurante at the Crossroads. Awesome.

by BiggyRat on November 02, 2008 at 10:10 AM

Who is this David Dale fellow to form a "checklist" attempting to inform Australians about dining.what rubbish is on that list.
"7. There is no such thing as a bad Thai restaurant."
Obviously an amateur or someone who hasn't eaten very often at Thai restaurants. Seriously.

by Tom on November 02, 2008 at 10:31 AM

Well, If I followed these rules I would never eat in Newtown. I have come across some of the filthiest establishments there. The other night our restaurant of choice was a bit busy and sat us upstairs with table clothes so dirty you could have eaten them for dinner... they were there from the last restaurant! I must admit the food was great.

As for the best pies, East Lynne just north of Batemans Bay have sensational pies worth a drive!

by dancingwithdeathinnewtown on November 02, 2008 at 10:54 AM

Never eat in a Chinese restaurant with nice, attentive waiters.

by Sarah on November 02, 2008 at 11:06 AM

When travelling, eat at a restuarant that has lots of locals and not many tourists. Chances are the menu won't be in English but you can always point at other people's food or let the waiter decide what you should eat. I've had some great meals that way that I'd probably never have dared to order myself.

by Judy on November 02, 2008 at 11:21 AM

Tommy Thai Smile in West Ryde is an absolute delight. It outward appearance belies the delights that are on offer.
Their Sizzling Seafood dish is truly something special.
My wife & I are regular visitors there.
Make a booking because they are are always very busy.

by gc on November 02, 2008 at 11:28 AM

I lived in Sydney for 16 years, now live in Melb - well, somebody has to - and in the Sydney years I never ate at the Sydney Tower revolving restaurant. Anyway, I did a few months ago, just in the less expensive bistro part, and it was GREAT! Glorious food and fantastic views. Also the restaurant 50 metres up, jutting disturbingly out of the side of the phone tower or whatever it is in Prague was pretty good too. So I'm not too sure about some of these rules. Agree with those who say go to places that are full, esp full of locals.

by ediff on November 02, 2008 at 11:35 AM

Schnitzel? Unas! (Darlinghurst or Double Bay, NSW)

by Pip on November 02, 2008 at 11:36 AM

Dont trust a thai restaurant with place mats. i went to thai restaurant in penrith where it had cockeroaches under the place mats. Yes it was a bad thai restaurant and its not alone. The state is full of rubbish resetaunts like that.

by Thai Roach on November 02, 2008 at 11:38 AM

Regardless the semantics, the only good - actually great - Thai I've ever eaten was in Thailand. Never in Sydney, with the exception of Darley St & Sailors Thai (now both Thompsonless...) have I eaten at a Thai restaurant and felt the slightest desire to return. Bog ordinary stuff outside its natural habitat.

by Tim on November 02, 2008 at 11:39 AM

Poogee Bay Hotel - apparently they are getting rid of the bar stools...
Boom Tish!

by ediff on November 02, 2008 at 11:48 AM

by john boy on November 02, 2008 at 09:10 AM
John... John Howard? Is that you? Good on you for getting out in the world again, little guy! Get janette cracking and barefoot straight back into that 1950's kitchen of yours!
As for restaurants - any place that either likes a few pieces of pasta with a kiddies pool of pasta sauce is a no go for me, as is a "garden salad" that is drowned in dressing of any kind and has about 70 different salad vegies and/or sundried or pickled extra bits. Blech! Just make it iceberg, good tomatoes, thinly sliced onion and a couple of olives, barely dressed in a little vinagrette already. Less is more.

by Nana on November 02, 2008 at 11:55 AM

Don't you just love the wannabes that had a package holiday in Thailand, probably Phuket, and now stick their noses up at Thai restaurants in Australia because they "aren't authentic"? My suggestion to them is to stick to Maccas and save for your next trip.

by James on November 02, 2008 at 12:00 PM

My husband is a refrigeration mechanic and we DON'T eat out at restaurants!! He comes home each night with horror stories of restaurants & cafes all around Sydney and their filthy kitchens & appliances. Of the thousands of restaurants he's visited over the years there would be only about 5 he would eat at. He's also developing an eating disorder and will only eat food he prepares or sees being prepared as he's paranoid of dirty kitchen and off food.
More needs to be done to protect the public from poor food handling.

by Belinda on November 02, 2008 at 12:20 PM

don't eat out in leichhardt, it looks like their health inspections are pretty lax http://blogs.smh.com.au/newsblog/archives/freedom_of_information/013477.html

by Eve on November 02, 2008 at 12:23 PM

Remember, high prices do not always purchase great quality.
Hats are for hygiene in a professional kitchen.
Wine should be fun and listed for fair markups - value exists at every price point.

by Domestic Fizz on November 02, 2008 at 12:26 PM

Never eat in a restaurant that has a kids menu or where kids eat free!

by lovely laura on November 02, 2008 at 12:34 PM

The difficulty with some of these criteria is that they are not upfront; you will need to sit down and order a meal before you find out that you've chosen a wrong place.
Another problem is that good restaurants are not always located close together. So, if you set out for a meal, then look inside a restaurant and reject it, you may spend quite a while wandering around after that, even driving to other places, before finding a place that suits you. It's happened to me, and I remember wondering in frustration where all the good places were, as I found myself walking around rejecting restaurant after restaurant on different criteria, and getting hungrier by the minute.
Maybe we should just work on some kind of "priority list", and relax a bit on the less important criteria. Otherwise, go all the way and systematically record your "good" and "bad" places in a notebook, so that you will not be left wandering about undecided when hunger strikes.

by Sharan on November 02, 2008 at 12:59 PM

Beware the "Tourist Trap" Restaurant. I have found them in Rome, Paris, Lygon St Melbourne and Darling Harbour. If there is a "spruiker" out the front trying to get you to come inside my advice is to keep walking. I agree with a previous comment to look for a busy establishment

by carl on November 02, 2008 at 01:21 PM

A friend of mine who I holidayed in Darwin with told me to check out the chef and the kitchen before dining there. He took me to a really nice Asian restaurant in Darwin, where the service was excellent and the food was great!
Most of the time, I usually try something first, and if I don't like it, I never go back.

by Angela on November 02, 2008 at 01:24 PM

I prefer dining in an open kitchen restaurants where I can see how foods are prepared. This type of restaurants has become popular the last couple of years in metropolitan cities in Asia. Don't always trust the menu shown outside the restaurant especially if it is restaurants in tourist area. We were attracted by the menu outside of a crowded restaurant in Barcelona's tourist area and found later out that prices are 20-30% more expensive inside. To add the problem worse the food quality was poor.

by Denny on November 02, 2008 at 01:33 PM

Never eat at a restaurant where there is no family patron.

by charles on November 02, 2008 at 01:41 PM

I have worked in hospitality for 25 years, and I have seen it all and have heard all the stories. One golden rule that people must remember regarding complaints about food or service is: It is your right to make a complaint, however it is not your right to be a complete and utter tosser about it and personally insult staff.
If you are calm, smile, and use a polite and friendly tone of voice and helpfully point out the problems you feel you have while avoiding demanding a remedy outright, you will most likely receive some if not all you meals for free, and will almost always receive complimentary drinks and/or desserts, and perhaps even a discount voucher for your next visit. If you are loud, insulting, arrogant and demeaning to staff (as apparantly the two now infamous patrons at the centre of the Coogee Bay incident were), you will most likely be met with a surly attitute by management, probably won't receive much if anything in the way of freebees, and could also be the recipient of some nasty surprises in your food.
Personally, the issue of putting excrement in gelato sounds far-fetched to me, as the taste would be immediately identifyable and the repurcussions swift.
The point of food sabotage, as I have witnessed many times unfortunately in my long career, is to taint the complainer's food in a usually disgusting and unhygenic but ultimately unidentifyable way with regards to taste. Adding saliva and other bodily fluids to sauces is one popular method, and "seasoning" meat or chicken by rubbing over the sweaty genitals and backsides of several cooks in a row is another old favourite. The point is to hide the foreign taste behind a wall of seasoning and stronger flavours, and then to peer out the service window and watch the oblivious diner shovel mouthfulls of tainted food into his or her face without realising what they are eating.
Politeness will generally be met with politeness and helpfulness, and rudeness with rudeness and indifference; simple as that. One word of warning though; if you are utterly rude and unreasonable in your complaints but are met with over-politeness and fawning from staff, insisting they replace your food or take it away for recooking, then you are more than likely about to recieve on of the forms of food sabotage mentioned above; trust me!
I do not condone any of this behaviour I've just described, just letting you all know what happens out there in the real world.

by Phil on November 02, 2008 at 01:55 PM

Never eat in a restaurant that includes the word 'family' in its title (the reasons are way too numerous to go into fully, but start with nuggies/chips ..... hardly chef-challenging).

by JOHN HICKEY on November 02, 2008 at 02:07 PM

I agree that the faeces incident was despicable, and that the person responsible should be sacked, but reading between the lines, I get the strong impression that the "victims" complained constantly, and were the "customers from Hell". I can understand the staff being annoyed at this, but the reaction, though extreme, was not surprising. I suggest that the family in question heed my advice, as I have NEVER had a bad experience in a restaurant.
My main rules as a customer include:
1) Be pleasant and polite to all the staff.
2) Be punctual.
3) Don't make unreasonable demands.
4) Don't be a loudmouth.
5) Don't complain about everything.
6) Keep your kids under control.
7) When leaving, thank the receptionist and tell her/him what a great time you had. The next time you go back, they will remember, and you'll get the service you have earned.
8) Above all, remember that the staff are human, and will respond in kind to the treatment they are given.
End of lecture!

by Sandy of WA on November 02, 2008 at 02:24 PM

by john boy on November 02, 2008 at 09:10 AM
Why don't you learn to cook yourself seeing as you'll never actually have a wife with that attitude of yours.
2. Never eat in a restaurant that is more than 20 metres above the ground.
- I think I would rather eat in a restaurant further away from the ground, less chance of cockroaches.
I also suggest eating in restaurants with an open kitchen. You can actually see the food being cooked.

by Em on November 02, 2008 at 02:38 PM

To John Boy - we have not stopped laughing in my household - what a crack up - are there any females in your household??
To Nigel - what the??????
Cheers.

by Paddington Bear on November 02, 2008 at 02:52 PM

Which rules to follow depends on what kind of restaurant experience you want. Noisy but fun theme atmosphere with quite passable food and friendly efficient service? Reliable, cheap, quick & plentiful? Quiet and premium-priced with excellent food and perfect service? That choice could determine whether it's the Lowenbrau Keller or Waggamamma, Thai or pub fare, Cafe Sydney or The Summit; all of which I've had at least one great evening. But I will never go where somebody is stationed at the door trying to pull people in off the street. It doesn't work (why do some eateries still do that?)

by Randy on November 02, 2008 at 02:54 PM

Never eat in a restaurant in Canberra.

by accidie on November 02, 2008 at 03:07 PM

Bad THAI restaurant? There is an appalingly BAD one in the blue mountains. Maybe coz it's run by (Anglo) Aussies? I'm amazed it's still open.

by Nick on November 02, 2008 at 03:24 PM

Never eat in a restaurant that only has 2 people maximum on a Friday or a Saturday night, the busiest nights on a restaurant's calendar... it does not bode well for the quality.
The other rule I have is to avoid restaurants who have to rely on a gimmick such as big breasted women, you may go there for the gimmicks but not for the food... I am more interested in the food

by kate on November 02, 2008 at 03:30 PM

yes there is such a thing as a bad thai restaurant, and Sydney is full of them! as for the bit about long menu equals good food at a chinese restaurant, what a load of bollocks! the whole list is silly cliché's. Simple rule: only eat a restaurant's recommended by critic's whose judgement matches your own, or which have been recommended by friends whose taste matches your own.

by ExpatinSingapore on November 02, 2008 at 03:33 PM

Restaurants that combine cuisines are almost always terrible. it's especially common with asian food as if 'asia' is just one place or there's no real difference between Chinese and Japanese.
Another thing, a lot of Thai and Japanese places are owned and run by Chinese people who just put up a bad impersonation of the cuisine.

by berihebi on November 02, 2008 at 04:03 PM

John Boys comment is offensive and should be moderated.

DD replies: This blog is moderated for legal reasons, not to censor stupidity.

by lauren on November 02, 2008 at 04:08 PM

We have always had the theory of eating in Chinese restaurants frequented by lots of Chinese people. The obvious theory is that the locals should know good from bad. Now I hear from my Hong Kong Chinese colleagues that they steer away from Chinese restaurants that have too many Europeans inside as the chef has probably westernised (compromised) the menu too much.

by Stewie on November 02, 2008 at 04:11 PM

Never eat in a restaurant in Sydney where the diners are louder than the clinking of cutlery... it belies the roots from which the diners' food preferences arise....
And I'd like to see this a lot more in Sydney: an even spread of whites in Asian restaurants and an even spread of Asians in western restaurants.... this is a true indication of the level of integration both ways.... and not that the chinese cuisine has been westernised or the western cuisine has been easternised.

by Singaporeanawandering on November 02, 2008 at 04:54 PM

One should not reveal one's favourite eateries via a blog (or one's fave pies - I don't want the price to go up!). My tip for diners and staff alike: maintain humility.

by Pete from Brew on November 02, 2008 at 05:03 PM

by Phil on November 02, 2008 at 01:55 PM
Phil, people like you should be punished severely. Too bad if you have to deal with rude people- we all do in our jobs. I bet they also do this to any customer they don't like, even if they weren't rude to them, like if they don't like their presumed ethnic background.
I hope the person who put poo in that lady's gelato is made an example of and the restaurant gets a heavy fine.

DD remarks: IF it's guilty.

by food terrorism? on November 02, 2008 at 05:18 PM

never eat in a restaurant where the waitress is picking her nose while waiting for you to order OR the waiter lets out a massive sneeze with mist just before they serve ur food OR they wash ur chopsticks with boiling green tea before they had them over to u.... all these experiences were in china, thailand and malaysia ahhhh

by maz on November 02, 2008 at 05:19 PM

i agree with DD, there is no such thing as a bad Thai restaurant. or an Italian or good Mexican ones.

by sophie on November 02, 2008 at 05:24 PM

Never eat "the chefs special", it is generally something that has had better days

by Malcolm on November 02, 2008 at 05:34 PM

In Nepal, always ensure you join in the 'scorching off the hair' process of the buffalo in the alleyway, and watch as the 'butcher' hacks off any old chunk of meat and skin and wraps in in old block-set newspaper with soluble ink. That ensures you will not die from gangrenous meat, but not necessarily from tichonoma, and that at least, in this disconnected world you have some sense of participation, of a relationship with source and an appreciation of the most fundamental dining transaction. But only so long as you cut your own firewood. Watch as buffalo transmogrifies and life renews.
And all without truffle oil.

by WhiteBear on November 02, 2008 at 05:55 PM

Be wary of a restaurant that has stressed, busy staff. Chances are the kitchen is feeling the heat too and you may experience a long wait, a reduction in quality of meals and apologies from the floor staff. Never a good thing.

by Kylie on November 02, 2008 at 06:29 PM

Urban Myths? I have also worked in the restaurant/hotel etc industry and have NEVER seen a customers meal tainted with anything, yet alone bodily fluids. A lot of talk may ensue after a 'difficult' customer is dining, yet I have never, ever seen it followed through with.
Maybe we should have some faith that chefs, kitchen staff and wait staff are responsible, aware individuals who understand that ingesting human poo could result in death.
Give us a break, we are not barbaric.

by Kylie on November 02, 2008 at 06:46 PM

@Singaporeanawandering;
Yes i agree, as a former sydney resident now living in Singapore, that is very true - most of the 'up-class' restaurants here are really simply taking cash from silly ah beng's acting 'cultured' with cash and smiling all the way.

by ExpatinSingapore on November 02, 2008 at 06:47 PM

Australia is the pits when it comes to food, dogs get better and more hygienic food in Europe then what is served in Sydney Restaurants.

by Barry O Rourke on November 02, 2008 at 07:06 PM

Who would want to cook for you john boy?? Let alone be with such a conceited pr..k?

by Jo on November 02, 2008 at 07:43 PM

new ad on Coogee Hotel:
Best gelato in town, No Shit!

by yu on November 02, 2008 at 07:58 PM

Never go to a Chinese restaurant where the chef is an ABC.

by Grace on November 02, 2008 at 07:59 PM

I'm hoping some of the commentators here don't act this way towards wait/kitchen staff when they go out to eat. Having worked in both kitchens and on the floor of restaurants throughout my formative years a lot of these added rules are degrading at the least.
Asking to see a kitchen or slyly attempting to check it out (fun fact: everyone knows you're doing it) is incredibly insulting. You're not the health authority, please don't act like it. The quality of a restaurant should be judged on the service and the food, not on some draconian ideal someone may have about etiquette (oh no, the waiter bringing out the food to a table of 15 doesn't know who's having the vienna schitzel because he didn't take the order. Obviously a no-good drug addict. This restaurant is sub-standard at best).
And, for the record, none of the restaurants I've ever worked in - and I've worked in all types - have ever 'tainted' the food. Indifference and rudeness from customers is treated with disdain, it's true. The chef might not make such an effort in preparing their meal, but Waiting style kitchen antics are greatly exaggerated and mostly restricted to franchise restaurants with workers who no longer care about their jobs.
As for the wait staff, same rules apply. When I encountered rude customers they were generally of the non-tipping variety. The worst I'd do to them is be uninterested. Take my time with their drinks. Drop their bill on the table as soon as they finish their meal. The customer who wants to see the kitchen, who wants to know if there's MSG in the the food or if the chicken is free range and who generally feels the need to act like a food connoisseur (you're not.) is most likely the one who'll have to deal with the kind of things that have been mentioned in the comments. Customers who are nice - who either understand or have experience in hospitality - generally have nothing to worry about.

by Chris on November 02, 2008 at 08:01 PM

I worked in a kitchen for a couple of years for some extra money while studying. In general the chef was very good even if people complained. However, there was a guy who was a total jerk and one day the chef accidentally dropped his meal on the floor. He just scooped it up, made it look presentable and sent it out. Did I care? No, people too often abuse the waiter. If you want to complain tell the chef and walk out, then leave a message on an online review site.

by Beetroot on November 02, 2008 at 08:09 PM

Darvo, craving an assortment of A+++ quality pies. Look no further than a HARRY's Pie at the Woollomoloo wharf. Too far, then there is 1 located in Liverpool adjacent to Krispy Kreme's. You can have mash, peas and gravy on your pie as well.
Also there is a pie factory (they make the Harry pies) on the corner of Harris street (sorry, can't remember the other street) Sydney. You can eat one then buy some to take home.
As for Nigel's comment, I completely agree, but might I also add that you should never dine in a restaurant that doesn't have a fully visible kitchen.
I must also agree with Ali's comment about the chair stacking.

by Rosa on November 02, 2008 at 08:33 PM

i agree with Kylie @ 6.46pm - I won't claim vast experience but over about a five year period - back in the late 70s to early 80s when it was all supposed to be a lot grubbier - I worked in a reception place, two pubs and two restaurants, and I never saw anything bad happen.
If a nice steak went on the floor it would then go in the bin. Hot words might have been exchanged, but nobody EVER thought to put that steak back on the griller.
I think many of these people claiming to have seen tewwible things in restaurants are probably demented promoters. What of - heaven knows

by ediff on November 02, 2008 at 08:44 PM

You only get fresh seafood in a seafood-branded restaurant. For other establishments expect long frozen/recently thawed offerings

by JohnG on November 02, 2008 at 08:58 PM

I too have been in the hospo industry for 20 odd years, both in fine dining and cheap and cheerfuls and have NEVER seen anyone ever taint food with anything. It goes against everything that a chef has trained for four years to be, and service staff aren't that stupid either.
General rules in restaurants?
Never eat fish on a Monday - it's been in the walk-in all weekend.
Check the cleanliness of the toilets - if they are unclean, it's likely the kitchen is too.
Never click you fingers at a waiter.
If you are only going to give a $2 tip, please spare us the insult. We would rather you didn't tip at all.
Expect any chef to treat you with contempt if you order Scotch Fillet "well-done".
And remember, when eating prawns or shellfish or quail etc, the little bowl with warm water and a slice of lemon on the table is for washing your fingers. It is NOT consomme.

by cronker on November 02, 2008 at 11:59 PM

Never eat in a restaurant that has pictures of its food on the menu.

by Melanie on November 03, 2008 at 07:43 AM

I have to say that it seems highly unlikely that staff would be as stupid as to put faeces in a bowl of ice cream as it's way too obvious. I also find some of DD's "rules" to be gross generalisations but that's to be expected with any of these types of lists. I eat out a lot at places ranging from 3 stars to my local Asian. I most definitely use food guides such as the SMH GFG and Gourmet Traveller Guide as a reliable starting point because I can't afford to eat out as much as the reviewers do and have found these publications to be mostly accurate allowing for my personal food bias and the reviewers perceived bias – not everyone will always with the reviewer or with my ratings for that matter. I found the previous GFG editor for instance had a discernable preference for French food, both modern and traditional. It also seems that some restaurateurs are not, lets say, on the favourites list of the GFG. Having said all that my list of guidelines would include some of DD’s and also ones mentioned about tourist traps, family restaurants, ones that are family friendly (I don’t want kids as aside dish with my meal thanks), or seafood places 100's of k's from the coast. On the issue of cleanliness, I have eaten in a place where I’ve walked past the kitchen and seen fish lying on newspaper on the floor but had one of the best steamed whole fish dishes ever and if you’ve ever eaten in Asia, especially at street stalls then I think you’d appreciate that all this cleanliness paranoia is overstated in many cases. Just enjoy, be pleasant with the staff and relax while somebody else does the cooking, serving and washing up. Sydney is a great place to eat out and has prices that are well below those of other major world capitals (possibly excluding Melbourne, although it’s rapidly catching up).

by Stuart on November 03, 2008 at 08:05 AM

go to the eatability website- you can get the low down on every restaurant in sydney before you go.

by Banana on November 03, 2008 at 10:30 AM

Never eat at a restaurant with a spruiker outside. Never eat at a restaurant that has a "Tourist's Menu". Never eat at a restaurant that offers "Chinese and Australian cuisine". Never eat at a restaurant that describes itself as "International Cuisine Fully Licensed".

by cmo on November 03, 2008 at 12:09 PM

Chris wrote: "Asking to see a kitchen or slyly attempting to check it out (fun fact: everyone knows you're doing it) is incredibly insulting. You're not the health authority, please don't act like it."
How bumptious you are - you, as an employee may not like it but the restaurant patron is going to put YOUR food in HIS/HER mouth so if they are that paranoid, why shouldnt they check your kitchen?

by LaBelle on November 03, 2008 at 02:12 PM

Never eat (twice) in a restaurant whose staff don't speak sufficient English to answer a question about an order (e.g. Q. Is the lamb in pieces off the bone, or like lamb cutlets on the bone? A. Yes, lamb.)
Never eat (twice) in a restaurant where you happen to be in the bathroom with your waitress, and she doesn't wash her hands after using the toilet, then attempts to serve your food! Such a shame too, I'd really enjoyed that Indian restaurant but now I can never go back..
Best pies - I Only Have Pies For You, in Tea Gardens near Hawkes Nest. Corny name but their spaghetti bolognaise pie is AMAZING.

by Liz on November 03, 2008 at 03:12 PM

I've worked in kitchens,both in 5 star hotels and in local restuarants and like Stuart, I just can't see any kitchen staff member putting faeces into a bowl of ice-cream. If customers are being difficult, the restaurants I have worked in, generally put them on a "black list" (never accept their booking again) or comp their bill and ask them to leave. Generally they are too busy to deal with bad customers and too busy to taint food. You will find that most kitchen people don't have time to go on a toilet break, let alone one that times itself conveniently with an altercation with a tiresome customer.... The whole thing just seems off to me and not just because of the substance involved. The main thing I don't understand, is that if something remotely happened to me like that, I'd be on the phone the very next business morning to the authorities, not asking for money

by kate on November 03, 2008 at 03:39 PM

Rule for Asian restaurants: if your seat is cold, it's a bad restaurant. Another rule is (mostly for Viet restaurants and bakeries): if you can see the little Buddha shrine, it'd be good.
PS: A little story. I know of two Thai places that are right nect to each other, one is 'modern' the other is 'more rustic' (bad decor and an air conditioner that barely works). The more rustic one is better.

by canoli on November 03, 2008 at 08:05 PM

A busy restaurant is no guarantee of a great service. You can make a genuine complaint and it stuffs up the chefs routine. So he takes your complaint personally and spits in your food? Shit - I'm bloody terrified of eating out unless I can watch as the food is being prepared. Seriously, the DISGUSTING publicity coming from Coogee Bay Hotel is good for the public because finally we have all woken up to what chefs and kitchen hands are capable of. Watch them closely or just walk out!!!

by Bob Grey on November 08, 2008 at 05:29 PM

Watch the TV show 'The Chopping Block' - see how hygenic the chefs and kitchen hands are - pretty dirty if you ask me. Imagine what they are like without the camera crew?

by Jo Samara on November 08, 2008 at 05:30 PM

When you put poo in my food, 'I don't like it'. When you put my refined taste down, I don't like it. When you smear my good name too, I don't like it. I don't like it!

by Pauline Hanson-Pantsdown on November 08, 2008 at 09:26 PM

Never order a Martini in a Chinese Restaurant

by dudesdynamos on November 09, 2008 at 10:42 PM

As a rule I avoid Indian restaurants that seldom have other Indians/Pakistanis eating there.These restaurants are almost always sub-standard or down right bad.I have learnt this living in London.

by Adam on November 23, 2008 at 02:29 PM

Modern society has become too precious.
Years ago the best chinese restaurant we could find had the worst toilets. It didn't matter to us that one had to stand among
the vegies stored in the toilet to address the bowl. The War Tip Har was great and
nowhere these days approaches such a wonderful culinary experience, even allowing for the food storage facilities.

by TOM DALY on November 25, 2008 at 09:45 AM

Where has all the beetroot gone in todays trendy salads as well as bread and butter(curled) instead of the miniscule rolls with foiled slab butter ,also too much cutlery is confusing for commoners.

by Tom Daly on November 25, 2008 at 09:56 AM

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