WHO WE ARE: A city that can't be beat

Wednesday May 9, 2007 04:08 PM

Who We Are

To discuss the lyrics of Macarthur Park, go to The Tribal Mind.
A column about Australia by David Dale, published in The Sun-Herald, 30/3/2008
At last we have the definitive answer to a question that has plagued this nation for 150 years: which is better - Melbourne or Sydney? The once fierce competition between the two capitals has mellowed in recent years into a polite agreement that they are "different but equal" - that Melbourne's deficiencies in scenery are balanced by its advances in sophisticated lifestyle, that Sydney's shallowness is balanced by its energy, etc. To me, this is wimpy and tokenistic. I want a winner - even if that demand betrays my Sydney upbringing.

And now I can get my wish. The Bureau of Statistics has just released a set of social atlases for every capital city in Australia, based on data collected in the 2006 census. I've been over the Sydney and Melbourne atlases with a microscope and come up with comparisons that unlock the essential mysteries. Here they are ...

Who is richer? Earning more than $2000 a week after tax: 27.2 per cent of Sydney households, 20.7 per cent of Melbourne households. Earning less than $500 a week after tax: 20.1 per cent of Melbourne households, 18.2 per cent of Sydney households. Unemployed: 5.4 per cent of the Melbourne workforce, 5.2 per cent of the Sydney workforce. But then again, in Melbourne 37.1 per cent of homes are being purchased by their occupants, compared with 33.7 per cent of Sydney homes.

Who is more ethnically diverse? People born overseas: 37.0 per cent of Sydney's population, 31.6 per cent of Melbourne's. People who arrived from overseas since 2001: 6.9 per cent of Sydney's population, 5.7 per cent of Melbourne's. Indigenous people: 1.0 per cent of Sydney's population, 0.4 per cent of Melbourne's.

Who is better educated? Holding at least one university degree: 30.5 per cent of the workforce in Sydney; 28.5 per cent in Melbourne.

Who is younger? Aged under 5: 6.6 per cent of Sydney people and 6.3 per cent of Melbourne people. Aged over 75: 6.4 per cent in Melbourne, 5.9 per cent in Sydney.

Who is kinder? People over 15 who do unpaid volunteer work: 17.1 per cent in Melbourne, 16.2 per cent in Sydney.

Who is more traditional? In Sydney, 42.5 per cent of families consist of a couple with no dependent children, while in Melbourne the figure is 43.5 per cent. In Sydney 9.7 per cent of families have only one parent living with kids. In Melbourne the figure is 9.9 per cent. So, classic family structure (mum, dad, kids, not necessarily with white picket fence): 47.8 per cent in Sydney, 46.6 per cent in Melbourne.

Who is more eco-conscious? Taking public transport to work: 21.7 per cent in Sydney, 13.9 per cent in Melbourne.

Who is more snobbish? Attending private schools: 39.2 per cent of kids in Sydney, 38.7 per cent in Melbourne.

Who is more tech-savvy? Homes with broadband internet connection: 50.8 per cent in Sydney, 46.5 per cent in Melbourne.

Who is growing faster? Melbourne's population (3.467 million) grew 6.5 per cent since 2001. Sydney's population (3.645m) grew 4.1 per cent. But population density: 2058 people per square kilometre in Sydney, 1532 people per square kilometre in Melbourne.

Who is lonelier? People over 15 living alone: 10.6 per cent in Melbourne, 9.8 per cent in Sydney.

Now you know which is the the more interesting city. Tell us why, here ...

David Dale is the author of Who We Are -- A snapshot of Australia today (Allen and Unwin). To discuss Australian attitudes, go to http://blogs.sunherald.com.au/whoweare.

COMMENTS

I'm pretty sure the population of Sydney is 4.2 million.

DD replies: Not by the Bureau of Stats definition. The atlas says: "At the 2006 Census, there were 3,645,153 usual residents in Sydney".

by bobmar28 on March 30, 2008 at 05:21 AM

As an American who travels around the world a lot for my job, I had the pleasure of recently spending time in both cities. Sydney and Melbourne are both world-class cities in every possible way. Australians should be proud of both. When the aliens visit this planet, I hope they land in Australia so they can see the best that Earth has to offer.

by Marc Smithes on March 30, 2008 at 09:27 AM

What about those things you can't measure, like the ability to dive into Gordon's Bay and follow a Blue Groper after work versus the ability to drink in a decent bar without being drowned out by the homo-erotic violence of rugby league, or generally being able to see/hear/participate in the arts without it seemingly like a branch of The Church of Scientology. And what about cheaper rent versus higher cost of beer? These are the real tricky questions, no?

by Benito on March 30, 2008 at 09:34 AM

It all looks pretty even to me David. I must say I'm a bit surprised by the public transport stats. Would've thought Melbourne would be a bit closer.
Not sure why the atlas says only 3.645m for Sydney because according to the Bureau quick stats for the 2006 census there were 4,119,190 usual residents - http://tinyurl.com/3c2fzd.

DD replies: That may have been all the Bureau could track down to fill in the census form.

by JAD on March 30, 2008 at 09:45 AM

Sydney rocks, Melbourne sucks!!!!!

by Sydneysider on March 30, 2008 at 10:04 AM

no i think population numbers have to do with the area definition within Sydney , 3.645m is probably the number for Sydney GMR (Greater Metropolitan Region) while other people define Sydney as beyond those bounds

by RJ on March 30, 2008 at 10:07 AM

Recently, a survey came out that more people in sydney participated in the arts than Melbourne. I really dislike that comparison. And what about the abilty to drive 5 minutes from the CBD and go for a swim. There aren't many cities in the world where you can do that. The one thing that Sydney has that no other city can compete with is the weather.

And there are plenty of bars where you don;t have to listen the league, unlike melbourne where every bar u go to, there is thar aerial ping pong being played. It does,n't matter the amount of events that Melbourne has to buy, when u travel overseas the first that people mention is what a great city Sydney is.

by Gerg on March 30, 2008 at 10:08 AM

Having lived in both while I was in Australia for several years, and having lived in major cities around the world otherwise... gotta root for Sydney. I loved having a variety of beaches at my disposal during the day, and be 10 minutes from hitting the clubs or pubs that evening afterwards...

by KdK on March 30, 2008 at 10:29 AM

It might be a close contest but for that god awful ritual called AFL that they try to pass off as THE Australian football code. Not to mention the way they tried to ram it down our bloody throats and embarrass us with it at the Commonwealth Games.

That alone says that Melbourne is provincial and not within cooee of Sydney.

by Dally M on March 30, 2008 at 10:37 AM

I'm from the N.T. and have lived in both Sydney and Melbourne and in the end a city is just a city. Each has its merits, but hey, most Australians don't live in either and we all get a good giggle form how you lot all carry on. That clap trap said and done, based on the pubs i've visited, Sydney wins as I found beer in the city much cheaper! (Oh, the weather in BOTH cities is rubbish!)

by Drew on March 30, 2008 at 10:38 AM

OK David, I am not playing this game. Suffice to say that after driving eight hours down the boring Hume, it is a delight to arrive in Melbourne. More and more Sydney siders are loving our sister city and visit often. And to you Marc Smithers, I hope you continue enjoying Sydney and Melbourne. Visit often as well my friend.

by steve on March 30, 2008 at 10:41 AM

According to this ABS link Sydney's population is 4.28m whereas Melbourne has 3.74m. But Melbourne's growth is faster than Sydney's.
http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Latestproducts/3218.0Media%20Release11996%20to%202006?opendocument&tabname=Summary&prodno=3218.0&issue=1996%20to%202006&num=&view=

by Dally M on March 30, 2008 at 10:45 AM

Yep, quick stats has sydney's population at 4,119,190 but Melbourne is also more at 3,592,591.

by Ant on March 30, 2008 at 10:46 AM

Sydney has a much greater sporting tradition with 100 years of Rugby League. Melbourne has Aussie Rules but it lacks the same passion. Sydney for me!

by Bruce on March 30, 2008 at 10:50 AM

The continuation of this Sydney-Melbourne question reflects badly on the insular nature of the pundits who keep shoving it forward.
As the American visitor states, both cities are great in different ways, as are our other capitals.
If they were the same, now that would be a real problem. Duh!

by Ian Austin on March 30, 2008 at 11:29 AM

Greg wrote, "And what about the abilty to drive 5 minutes from the CBD and go for a swim."

That can't be done in Sydney either, unless you fancy a dip in Darling Harbour.

by Paul C on March 30, 2008 at 11:47 AM

i think Brisbane has the better weather...

by LIz on March 30, 2008 at 11:48 AM

Sydney, or where?

by Paul on March 30, 2008 at 11:58 AM

Having just returned from a break in Victoria over Easter - Melbourne struck me as being the "Paris of the South" and I can't wait to re-experience all that it has to offer, again.
$ydney has $old its $oul, Corporate greed has seduced our State Govt.to the point where there is an inverse relationship between some companies share price and the happiness and satisfaction of living in this once great and exciting place...Still they turned around New York and we need only to look to Melbourne as a shining star of Hope.
I will retreat to my favourite Harbour Beach and seek solace to contemplate what was and could have been...if only??!?

by Marko M of Manly on March 30, 2008 at 12:02 PM

As a Hong Kong resident, born in Perth and who visit both Melbourne and Sydney frequently, I can take a less biased point of view. Sure Sydney has its harbour and its beaches, but Melbourne leaves it for dead when it comes to restaurants, architecture, street landscapes and ambience. Better looking people too.

by Peter Thompson on March 30, 2008 at 12:04 PM

Sydney is a pretty mundane and a day-to-day city. Yeah beaches, wow is that what average joes think about everyday? Melbourne has a great environment and much more appreciation for culture. Sydney keeps resting on its laurels and its vanity about fine arts. Sure Melbourne as awful weather but at least they don't have demeaning attitudes like Sydney people.

All in all, the cities are roughly the same. Sydney stands out a bit more but not greatly. Their cities that are like mid-west USA if you want to live a cruisey, safety-blanket life.

by M.H. on March 30, 2008 at 12:12 PM

Having lived in al 3 eastern seaboard capial cities, my favorite is by far Melbourne, even though I am currently living in Sydney, the energy in Melbourne on Chapel St, Sunday afternoon bevvies and people watching is a great way to end a weekend. Melbourne baristas make a better coffe (as a general rule - no offence to Sydney cafe owners).

Melbourne City is a destination on the weekend, the lane way bars and cafes, the trams etc.

And despite what everyone says the weather is not that bad, you get to own a winter wardrobe and wear a neanie and scarf and coat.

However, Sydney does have fantastic beaches, you can hardly call St Kilda beach a "beach" in the terms the world calls a beach, and it is a relaxing afternoon at Opera bar drinking the weekend away and socialising with friends. The Harbour, The Bridge, The Opera House are truely fantastic attributes for this city.

But my one favorite thing about Melbourne is teh different "precints" that fan out from the city - the cake shops in St Kilda, The fashion on Chapel St, The mix of factory and brands on Bridge Rd, the unique brands and designs of Brunswick St.

Melbourne presents as more tolorate city and far easier to settle into....

Melbourne appears to take it's influence from Europe, while Sydney takes it influence from America.That is what makes them both great - they are 2 different cities, it would be boring if our 2 biggest cities were the same.

by Adrian on March 30, 2008 at 12:22 PM

in reference to the comment from Bruce - re Sydney has a great sporting tradition with 100 years of Rugby League.

Melbournes passion for AFL is unsurpassed by Sydneys support of Rugby League, just look at the average game attendance figures each week, and with a lower population in Melbourne they support a higher number of local teams - it is a movement not just a game.

The AFL is currently celebrating 150 years of sporting tradition, Melbourne is the only city in the world to host both a Grand Slam Tennis event as well as round of the F1 GP (for the time being at least)

by Adrian on March 30, 2008 at 12:29 PM

Having lived the first 27 years of my life in Melbourne and now the second 17 in Sydney and regularly spending time in both, I say both are great cities. I can say that "in general" the weather is definitely better in Sydney and the coffee is definitely better in Melbourne. My simple analogy when asked to compare is, Sydney is like Coca Cola (fast & fizzy) while Melbourne is like Red Wine (elegant & refined). Both nice but different.

by M Rhodes on March 30, 2008 at 12:34 PM

Daily M, I am from Sydney. You cannot say that AFL is not the national football code, it is the number one code in every State in Australia except NSW and Qld. In all those other states rugby league is non existent and rugby barely exists.

by AS on March 30, 2008 at 12:35 PM

The issue is that more Melbournites compare both cities - as if they have something to prove. Whereas Sydneysiders don't really care about the rivalry - as if it doesn't matter. So who has the inferiority complex then?

Oh and AFL blows. Get over it and stop forcing it down my throat.

by Trev- on March 30, 2008 at 12:36 PM

Bruce

The AFL had its centenary in the late 90s and it traces its formation back to 1854. It is therefore much older than league.

Also Aussie rules games can get crowds of 80,000 during the home and away season league is lucky to get 30,000. Not sure how that equates to more passion for league.

by John on March 30, 2008 at 12:39 PM

I'm a Sydneysider, and even I say Melbourne is better. Sydney people are so obsessed with what they look like, are more snobbish, are not the least concerned about the environment (CARS EVERYWHERE, or They'll take a cab for a ride that would take you 10 minutes to walk). Sydney is a good place to visit, unfortantely, i live here. Melbourne is nicer, friendlier, and WAY more cultural...

by Daniel on March 30, 2008 at 12:48 PM

Never been to Melbourne but everyone i know tells me Melbourne is just another European city in Australia. If so, i'd rather live in Europe than a European wannabe. Plus, i prefer sunshines and beaches over clothes and cafes.

by John on March 30, 2008 at 01:08 PM

It is all a bit childish really as both cities have a lot to offer in different ways and things like this don't do much to promote interstate friendships do they? BTW AFL is very popular in Sydney too and although I don't really follow any football I know I really dislike Rugby League and I grew up in NSW.

by Jules on March 30, 2008 at 01:12 PM

Hi,
I have lived in both cities - I grew up in Melb but then moved to Sydney for acting.
I love both cities - although I find Sydney people tend to say "Melb is rubbish" - have you visited? "Err no".
Melb has better parks - Sydney has the best harbour in the World.
I love the energy of Sydney but I love the architectural beauty of Melb. I hated Paramatta Road - so ugly.
Sydney does have better weather, thats true. Melb public transport is SO much better. Trains are too crowded in Sydney.
I think Sydney pubs are better than Melb, but Melb restaurants are better.

If you go by house prices, Melb is definitely in the ascendancy. I think this is because of the lack of investment in infrastructure in Sydney. Sydney needs massive investments in new roads, train lines etc.

I love them both, I'm in LA now and miss them both terribly...sob sob. Parramatta Road architecture everywhere!
BTW lived in Darwin too - whats that guy on about? For 6 months of the year it is so humid its almost unbearable..nice place though!

by Thomas Bromhead on March 30, 2008 at 01:36 PM

Don't you love diversionary tactics? While the two giants batter each other around the head with their egos, people elsewhere get on with things and know the best living is somewhere that doesn't obsess about everyone else recognising them for it. As TM would know better than anyone, with its committed analysis of celebrity and professional vacuity, a glamorous image is still only an image. One of the greatest images of Australia's love-hate cityscapes is our decision to build our capital from scratch halfway between Sydney's Goneril and Melbourne's Regan, getting a couple of Americans in to design it then stuffing them around with local politics. Canberra's in one of the eastern states' most beautiful regions, with vitality, grace and vision, and it's a gift to most Canberrans that so few other people know it. We're not about to give away the secret by getting into this contest. Thanks for drawing off the fire!

by Nicholas on March 30, 2008 at 01:44 PM

I have lived in both cities. I am a specialist doctor. In Sydney, all the old doctors still kept on asking "What high school did you go to?" in order to rank one's social order through which side of the harbour bridge you live on, parentage, cultural connexions and inherited wealth. No one asked me that in Melbourne.

Melbournians are more artistic, more open minded, less bigoted and more generous.

by michelle on March 30, 2008 at 01:53 PM

having lived in both Sydney and Melbourne I think the two cities are fairly similar and lots of the old stereotypes I don't think hold true. However the only thing Sydney has over Melbourne is that Sydney is breathtakingly beautiful. we have been blessed with the most beautiful harbour and beaches and Melbourne has no focal point like that.

by James on March 30, 2008 at 02:02 PM

Can't work out what the big debate is all about.... Sydney will always come 1st and is one of the most beautifull cities in the world. Their weather is totally crap....and
they follow and odd sport that no one in world knows of, cares about or can understand !

by Ces on March 30, 2008 at 02:07 PM

I was born and raised in Sydney, have travelled the world, unfortunately have to live in Switzerland where I have been living for close to 30 years. Every time I come back to Sydney (which was just recently) for a visit, I say to myself what the heck am I doing in Europe. Sydney is and always will be the most beautiful (and in most points) harbour city in the world for me. Not a day goes by where I do not miss Sydney and am always proud to say to everyone I meet ....... I come from Sydney, their eyes glow ..... and their response ...... what am I doing in Europe when you come from Australia? ...... they would love to live in Oz if they could ...... what does that tell you people!

by snowroo on March 30, 2008 at 02:22 PM

I'm a Sydneysider who's spend a lot of time in Melbourne, friends and family in both cities, etc etc. I adore both cities for different reasons, because they're so different and offer different things.
In my experience though it's far more common to find Melbournites citing the rivallry and how Melbourne's so much better than Sydney, complaining about Sydneysiders being rude and obnoxious, and generally denouncing Sydney, and yet quite often they've never even been there.
I do have to disagree with the person who said Sydneysiders are more into how they look - that's definitely a baton I believe Melbourne holds a million miles in front of Sydney.
Ultimately I think comparing Sydney & Melbourne is a little like comparing LA & New York - they couldn't be more different, so what's the point?

by Jaks on March 30, 2008 at 02:34 PM

i am from southamerica and i had the chance of living in Sydney for almost a year. I really loved this city, the scenery... the harbour is breathtaking and nightlife was pretty good as well. However, there is one issue that should concern you: cleanliness, it was very sad to see rubbish everywhere, this detail is not that hard to improve, it should be every citizen's will.

by diego pacheco on March 30, 2008 at 02:36 PM

David,
Shame on you, the denizens of Melbourne have long consoled themselves with two delusions:

1. That Melbourne is better than Sydney
2. That people in Sydney care at all about what Melbourne is like.
Now you've provided hard data that Sydney is the superior place, they can only console themselves that we are watching what happens in Melbourne - or that we even care.
Van

by Van on March 30, 2008 at 02:58 PM

I lived in Melbourne for many years before moving to Sydney. There are differences between the two cities which came as a suprise to me.
Sydney is much bigger and the traffic is terrible. The distance to travel in Sydney is also much greater and therefore it much more difficult to commute to the CBD. The freeway system in Melbourne is much better and trains seem to stop less frequent.
Sydney has many beautiful beaches but due to the distance/traffic, not everyone can enjoy them, whereas in Melbourne, everything is more accessible.
I found Sydney is more expensive but there are more jobs and salary tends to be higher.
People in Sydney are friendlier and the weather is perfect whereas it is less desirable in Melbourne.
I would say both are great cities and it is more interesting when they are different.

by johnny on March 30, 2008 at 03:04 PM

Has been living in both cities and having background from oversea, I do really think besides traffic, there is no chance for Melbourne to compete with Sydney even living in Sydney costs people more (Money, time and frustration).
Long story short, Sydney is the symbol of Australia. Hopefuly people of Sydney can keep it that way because NSW and Sydney government is ...

by River on March 30, 2008 at 03:06 PM

I'm so tired of this argument, and it always comes from people who in live in Melbourne. The people in Sydney do not care who is better.

by Benjamin on March 30, 2008 at 03:32 PM

Having grown up in Tasmania (of all places), moved to Sydney and then spent the last 7 years in Asia this is my take on Sydney. It has clearly passed it's peak. Look at Circular Quay, it is a disgrace, thanks Bob Carr, minister for non planning, you really messed that one up. That should have been a warning to New South Wales but we didn't hear the the call. The infrastructure is falling apart, the trains dont work, the roads are inadequate and there are too many tolls, the state schools are all politicised and strike prone resulting in more and more people turning to private schools, taxis are absurdly expensive, I could go on and on. And what about the state government, what a joke. How bad do you have to be to be voted out in NSW. Clearly very, very, very bad.
20 years ago Sydney was clearly a better city, no question about it, only someone from Melbourne could argue with that.

Nowadays I not so sure.

by Steve on March 30, 2008 at 04:28 PM

Funny comments from the Sydneysiders about only Melbournians get into this rivalry. This blog is not generated by the AGE website but the Sydney Morning Herald! hehehe...
The cities are very different and there is no viable comparison, in fact both people and the cities themselves value differing parts of their lifestyle.
AFL is a much better game than rugby league or vice versa - a case in point.

by Greg Walker on March 30, 2008 at 04:41 PM

Well well, looks like some people (including the author of this article) is getting a little insecure about the rise of Melbourne! Get over it Sydney is declining big time and everyone is moving to brisbane or melbourne (which is growing double that of sydney by the way) :-)

by me on March 30, 2008 at 04:42 PM

I'm a Spaniard who lived in Sydney for 1 year and I thought it was the perfect city. Now, I have the possibility to live in Melbourne and everyone says that I won't be disappointed at all... except for the weather. Is it true?

by Albert on March 30, 2008 at 05:14 PM

Well Im from Sydney but live overseas and have frequented Melbourne many times..
I don't know but I got bashed up in Sydney so Im wondering about Crime rates, no doubt about it The City of Greater Sydney is tops in the world as one if not the most beautiful City in the world wonder if its tops in criminal elements.. Im wondering which city is best to bring up a family in and Im not talking about Monetary values of homes..

by Mikki I on March 30, 2008 at 05:39 PM

I think Sydney is much more multicultural than Melbourne. I found Melbourne to be quite xenophobic. certainly Sydney is the most happening city in Aus.

by Sydneylover on March 30, 2008 at 05:48 PM

If sydney was better, it wouldn't need comments from Sydney siders to prove it and and argue it's point, publish this in a Sydney paper, just so they could get a biased response and tell themselves how it is the 'better' city. Sydney residents should get over it. Both are great cities, with different culture and vibe to offer. Why do Sydney siders have to compare. Do they think they are lagging behind? Do they need to keep up with the race? Do they want to be more cultural? Are they jealous? Who cares if they like AFL, do you want them to be followers than creators? They are not 'shoving' AFL down your throat, that is only your imagination and perception. Sydney siders are in their own bubble. Melbournians are lateral and free thinkers.

by d on March 30, 2008 at 05:54 PM

The only reason more people in Sydney catch public transport is because our roads are crap and we have no choice. Its got nothing to do with being more "eco" friendly

by Justin on March 30, 2008 at 06:16 PM

I went to melbourne over christmas/Near year. Its a great place, seemed a little more relaxed then Sydney, but no matter what Sydney is still better, more life, beaches, culture, great shopping.

Yeah Chapel st is good but def overrated

by Bryce on March 30, 2008 at 06:29 PM

How is quoting a few vague facts based on samples meant to assist our decision. Who cares what percentage of kids go to private schools and how is that an indication of snobbishness? If anything it indicates prosperity.
This arguement has been done to death so if you're going to re-visit it atleast give us an intro with some substance and thought.

by Earl Barrett on March 30, 2008 at 07:30 PM

I think Sydney - because that's where my roots are - well most of them at least.

by Arthur on March 30, 2008 at 07:39 PM

Melbourne only has ONE advantage over Sydney. The trams. Especially the City Circle tram that goes around Melbourne CBD for free. What a fantastic way to get around and get people around your city. FOR FREE. If only they could get better transfers from Tullamarine to the CBD.
Dare I suggest that the only reason they get such large crows at AFL fixutres is that there's nothing else better to do?

by Bereft Skerrick on March 30, 2008 at 07:48 PM

Only Melbourne people care for this argument.....shame SMH!

by GS on March 30, 2008 at 07:57 PM

Just thought I would point out to Drew on March 30 - majority of Australians ARE city dwellers, and we think that country people are good looking, but not too good with facts. ha ha.

by hugh on March 30, 2008 at 08:11 PM

You forgot the most important question. Percentage of people who don't live in Sydney or Melbourne who care which city is better?
Zero.

by Phil Anderson on March 30, 2008 at 08:18 PM

There is constant confusion over the Sydney numbers, and what is Sydney. The Sydney Statistical Division (SSD) usually includes the Central Coast (Gosford area). Sydney Metro doesn't but includes the Blue Mountains. The Greater Metropolitan Region (GMR) includes the Lower Hunter (Newcastle) and the Illawarra (Wollongong). Don't mention Sydney City Centre, Sydney CBD, Central Sydney or Global Sydney!!!

by Simeon King on March 30, 2008 at 08:23 PM

Sydney is beautiful but so gay.

by Benjamin on March 30, 2008 at 08:31 PM

Its easy: Sydney in summer, Melbourne in winter.

by Byron Keane on March 30, 2008 at 08:52 PM

Sydney or Melbourne? Hmmm... Perth!

by Antony in Perth on March 30, 2008 at 08:58 PM

I was born and raised in Melbourne, but have lived almost my entire adult life in Sydney (since 1991). Both cities are great and yet so very different. Melbourne has undergone a transformation from the gloomy, depressing place it was in the late 1980s (the ‘recession we had to have’ seemed to bite harder down there) into a far more energetic, confident and colourful city than it once was. I could happily live in either. Having said all of that, the Melbourne vs. Sydney rivalry is sort of infantile and something overseas visitors find a little odd. And I agree with Trev in an earlier post - it seems to be more of a Melbourne thing....

by Yeah, you did... on March 30, 2008 at 09:48 PM

AND WE have Canberra less than 3 hrs drive without a ticket.

by RK on March 30, 2008 at 09:50 PM

Grew up in Perth, lived in sydney and melb for extended periods and now live in Shanghai. Sydney has alot of wonderful things going for it, but it has stagnated like a can of coke left in the fridge for a week. Its lost its fizz. During the olympics, Sydney really had a terrific buzz about it, people seemed happier and friendlier. But its a moody city and the mood quickly changed back to its stressful, dog-eat-dog ways. I just can't imagine the Cronulla riots happening in Melb; in sydney the differences between ethnic groups seems sharper and edgier than Melb. Sydney reminds me alot of Shanghai - brash, showy, stressed, highly individualistic and ego-centric. Melbourne feels more like Beijing - a bit more relaxed, people at food markets take time to chat, talk about books. Sydney is the beautiful gym-trainer with a perfect body but always looking in the mirror. Melbourne is the yoga teacher - calm and with a introspective, tolerant soul.

by Vince in Shanghai on March 30, 2008 at 10:05 PM

First of all I was raised in Melbourne and now I live in Sydney for the last decade.
***Summary of Melbourne***
1.AFL is the best game in the world.
2.Melbourne is the education city, at least you have time to read a book.
3.Nice planned city and roads.
4. Life is nice and relaxing especially Chapel st.
5. I love driving in Melbourne especially in the affluent suburbs of Toorak, Malvern East etc ( the people are so friendly here).
6. Nice cafes and Restaurants.
7. Lovely sporting city ( keep it up Melburnians)
8. WHAT A MAAAARK!!! :).
My Overall Rating: A++
**Summary of Sydney**
1. Beautifull Weather (excuse my spelling, what do you expect I live in Sydney now, no time to read a book).
2. Nice Harbour and amazing beaches.
3. Jobs are plentifull.
4. Life is very quick and you don't realise your hairline is receding.
5. nice airport but too noisey.
6. Hot ladies.
7. Aahh Cronulla beach, amazing waves.
My Overall Rating: A+ï¿½

by saleh on March 30, 2008 at 10:20 PM

TM you were the sort of kid who started arguments in the school yard and then stood back at a safe distance and watched were n't you?

by Cat on March 31, 2008 at 08:33 AM

I grew up in Sydney, but now live nearby on the central coast. But I have spent a fair bit of time in Melbourne and must say that I do love Melbourne. I certainly think that they have a superior public transport system to Sydney. The shopping is better and the arts scene is superior.
But then Sydney has the magnificent harbour and the beaches. It is a much more laid back place and has the better all over lifestyle.
So I love both places but choose to live outside the city and would never want to live in either again. Prefer a country/regional lifestyle to all the hustle and bustle of city life.
Both a nice place to visit....

by em on March 31, 2008 at 10:31 AM

Last time I was in Melbourne, the standard reaction to me telling them I was from Sydney was to screw up their faces and ask "Don't you love Melbourne?". Well I don't, I'm glad I don't live in a city that has an inferiority complex

by drb123 on March 31, 2008 at 11:05 AM

by Simeon King on March 30, 2008 at 08:23 PM
Please do not include Newcastle in your definition of Sydney. I have no idea what the people of the Central Coast, Blue Mountains or Wollongong think of being thrown in with Sydney, but to Novocastrians it is an insult! Newcastle is a much more pleasing place to live - close enough to visit Sydney for the day but far enough away to have a separate and unique identity.
And if you are talking about a city that truly is just minutes from the beach then you must be talking about Newcastle. I wouldn't try walking from George Street in the City to the beach, but there is no problem taking a 2 minute stroll from Hunter Street in Newcastle. And there are 1/2 dozen fabulous surfing beaches within a 5 minute drive of the CBD.
Of all Australian cities, Newcastle is THE ONLY city truly on the beach.

by Dally M on March 31, 2008 at 12:29 PM

David,
Shame on you, the denizens of Melbourne have long consoled themselves with two delusions:
1. That Melbourne is better than Sydney
2. That people in Sydney care at all about what Melbourne is like.
Now you've provided hard data that Sydney is the superior place, they can only console themselves with the false hope that we are watching what happens in Melbourne - or that we even care.
Van

by Van on March 31, 2008 at 02:23 PM

What a shame that a few more key indicators weren't included - such as:
% of pubs without pokies (wouldn't be very high in Sydney - and despite the revenue it brings, the trains still don't run on time)
Number of small laneway bars
Simplicity of public transport ticketing system
What a shame that the current NSW state government is so hostage to the Hotels Association, Developers etc.., and generally so shortsighted and inept that they have let the soul disappear from Sydney
Not that I imagine Melbourne would be any sort of utopia, but it can't be as soul-less as Sydney has become.
Definitely feels like Sydney is on the decline and Melbourne on the up...
Go the mighty Swans!!

by A born and bred Sydneysider on March 31, 2008 at 06:47 PM

I don't know what all the fuss is about. Everyone knows Adelaide is the real capital.

by Drew on April 01, 2008 at 02:25 AM

melbourne is a s---hole, i am leaving it to go bush in a few weeks and counting down every bloody day! (i am a native harbourside born sydneysider by the way)

by besa on April 04, 2008 at 03:23 PM

(sydney sydney sydney) ****MELBOURNE****

by DES on April 06, 2008 at 11:07 AM

Work prospects in many industries are far better in Sydney IMHO. The climate here is so much better than in Melbourne (ever seen how dark and ominous those clouds get over Pt. Philip Bay?). There are plenty of very ugly parts of Melbourne - Sydney also... but Sydney has the harbour of course - but also the South Coast, the Central Coast, and the Blue Mountains - drive any direction for about 30-60 minutes and you're in scrub land just about.
Sydney is the undisputed jewel in the crown - and I think most people who live here know that. Melbourne IS NOT PARIS baby - you have got to be kidding me, and no snobbery or "old boys club" in Melbourne - what a joke.
One thing I really noticed when I first moved here 6 years ago is Sydney people's fantastic dry humour - this may get misconstrued as arrogance - it's actually all a bit of a joke which I love!

by Phil on April 14, 2008 at 09:47 PM

Re the PM's comments about Australian films --- yes, I loved Man from Snowy River, and Phar Lap and a whole host of Australian movies. One of the best though that I have seen for a long long time is one released at the end of 2997 call 'September' ---- a truly beautiful story, filmed in the Hay region of NSW --- wonderful photography and a really lovely story about two young Australian boys (one white & one black) as they grow up together and ultimately grow apart.

by Maureen Darcy-Smith on April 23, 2008 at 02:44 PM

So there is no rivalry as far as Sydney is concerned? Really?
First a brief history.
Melbourne was founded by John Batman in 1834. Despite disapproval from the New South Government free settlers flocked to chase opportunities in this new colony. NSW reluctantly accepted the reality of the new settlement and named it Melbourne. In 1851 Victoria was granted independence and 2 weeks later gold was discovered and the rush was on. Melbourne quickly grew to become the largest and most important city in the colony and one of the largest cities in the British Empire. For a time, Melbourne was reputed to be the richest city in the world and became known as Marvelous Melbourne. In 1888 Melbourne hosted the Centennial Exhibition to commemorate 100 years of European settlement. With federation in 1901 Melbourne became Australiaï¿½s capital city temporarily. Melbourne remained the capital until 1927 when Canberra took over. This happened because Sydney could not accept Melbourne being the nationï¿½s capital. Despite Sydney regaining its status as the countryï¿½s largest city early in the 20th century, Melbourne continued to wield great influence and in 1956 hosted The Olympics. Melbourne remained Australiaï¿½s financial and business centre until the late 1970ï¿½s when Sydney took the lead. The Business Council of Australia remains in Melbourne along with 2 of the 4 big banks, BHP and Rio Tinto along with others. The 70ï¿½s, 80ï¿½s and early 90ï¿½s were not a great period for Melbourne but as they say, ï¿½shit happensï¿½.

Melbourne still holds an array of National Institutions and Events such as, The Australian Open, The Melbourne Cup and Racing Carnival, The Australian International Air Show, The Australian F1 Grand Prix, The Australian Motorcycle Grand Prix, The Melbourne International Flower and Garden Show, The Melbourne International Comedy Festival and the AFL Grand Final, just to name some major ones.

Melbourne also tops or ranks very highly on many internationally produced lists regarding a whole variety of things.

Now, lets look at the two cities like Iï¿½ve seen many Sydney Siders describe them, as siblings, with Melbourne being the jealous younger one.
Can you imagine how big brother felt when little brother got very rich?
Can you imagine how big brother felt when little brother grew bigger?
Can you imagine how big brother felt when little brother ran the country?
Can you imagine how big brother felt when little brother hosted the Olympics?
Can you imagine how big brother felt while little brother led in business?
Can you imagine how big brother felt when little brother, etc, etc, etc, etcï¿½

If Sydney is the older more beautiful brother then Melbourne must be the lucky and far more talented bane of the older brotherï¿½s existence.

If you imagine two children, one beautiful and older the other talented and younger, sure the younger one might be envious of the others looks but at least he canï¿½t deny what is obvious. How would the beautiful one feel when attention and praise is given to the talented one? Would they try and undermine the younger one by calling them ugly and telling everyone how ï¿½bleakï¿½ they are. Would they spread rumors about their weather being so terrible despite it not being dramatically different from their own in many ways? Would they deny their feelings and say ï¿½They donï¿½t careï¿½ about the younger one?

Iï¿½ve seen many Sydney Siders use the sibling analogy on forums and say ï¿½they donï¿½t careï¿½, they just do it to provoke and antagonize ï¿½The Jealous Little Brotherï¿½. Well what does that say about the ï¿½Big Brotherï¿½? Heï¿½s not any brother Iï¿½d want.

I think little brother just wants a little recognition from big brother for all that he has achieved. I think little brother just wants big brother to act his age and be honest and pay some respect. Despite all this, little brother still loves and admires his big brother but would like to say, ï¿½Donï¿½t be a jerk all your lifeï¿½.

I know there are many open minded and honest Sydney Siders but to the ones who deny there is a rivalry but are only to happy to take the time to tell us ï¿½they donï¿½t careï¿½ and also make blanket statements like Sydney is the best at everything in every way and Melbourne is nothing but a hole. I say grow up and be honest, at least thatï¿½s one thing Melbourne is. We enjoy the competition and consider you a great opponent and a dear brother. With your denial you are only fooling yourselves. Your media publish the rivalry because it sells papers and your Premier incites it because it wins votes.

I can honestly say I like Sydney and if it is your favorite city I can appreciate why.
I would also agree that visiting Sydney is more of a priority for a tourist as it better represents the stereotypes foreigners have of Australia and is more unique internationally in terms of its setting. I also believe Melbourne is perhaps more unique within Australia. For example, the beaches that make Sydney renowned internationally are not such a big deal to someone from Perth, Adelaide or Queensland.

To people who mention celebrity residents as proof that Sydney is better, I only need ask. How many celebrities live in L.A. and how does L.A. rate as a city?

To people who go to Europe and are told by Europeans how much they want to go to Sydney and cite this as proof that Sydney is betterï¿½ Besides the Harbor Bridge and Opera House, what else do they know about the place? You canï¿½t place much value on the opinion of someone who has never been here. I grew up thinking the U.S.A. must be just the best but after going there I learned that things arenï¿½t always what you expect and generally donï¿½t think too highly of America any more.
Why is it so many Sydney Siders say something like this, ï¿½Sydney is the best because it has the Opera House and the Bridgeï¿½. How often do you hear someone say, ï¿½New York is the best because it has the Statue of Liberty and the Empire Stateï¿½, or ï¿½London is the best because of Big Benï¿½. They donï¿½t, they describe the experiences the city offers or the people who live there. While the Opera house is great and for someone who doesnï¿½t usually find bridges attractive I am impressed by the Harbor Bridge, these are only ï¿½thingsï¿½. I would hope Sydney is much more than thatï¿½
Lastly the weatherï¿½ While I wonï¿½t try and claim Melbourneï¿½s weather to be ï¿½the bestï¿½, I do know plenty of people who enjoy winter here and for some itï¿½s their favorite season. By the way, Melbourneï¿½s winter is only about 2-3 degrees colder than Sydneyï¿½s. Despite what people say, Melbourne is not the hottest or coldest, the driest or wettest, the windiest or the most humid capital city in Australia. So whatï¿½s with the exaggerated claims about Melbourneï¿½s weather being so extreme? Melbourne is more cloudy but this can make things more comfortable, personally I donï¿½t much like getting sun burnt. Melbourneï¿½s weather is more variable but not to the degree some people like to suggest and once again this does have its advantages too. How many hot days in a row do you want? How many rainy days in a row do you want? At least with Melbourne you will get variety and isnï¿½t that the spice of life? If you donï¿½t like Melbourneï¿½s weather thatï¿½s fine, just donï¿½t talk crap.
What would Sydney be like if it wasnï¿½t for Melbourne and its Gold Rush? Sydney would be undisputed king of the Southern Hemisphere and more. It would have the best of both cities (minus the Melbourne street layout). Instead itï¿½s often had to share top billing with its younger brother. So donï¿½t tell me ï¿½Sydney doesnï¿½t careï¿½. Yeah Rightï¿½
If you like Sydney, good for youï¿½ and if you like Melbourne ditto, just be honest and fair or you make you, me and the rest of us look less than our best, and we all know how we care about our imageï¿½ Right Sydney?

by Alan on May 16, 2008 at 11:33 AM

There is a good reason Sydney is the No.1 city in Australia.
Captain Cook by passed every other city and came to Sydney first as he knew which one was best !!!!!!!!!!
Seriously though, ask anybody around the world and they instantly mention Sydney Australia, it is the most beautiful city in the world and one which I am porud to call home.
If you want to make it big in Australia, you have to come to Sydney to get the best jobs and the biggest wages.
Sydney is the NEW YORK of Australia !!!

by Patrick on June 10, 2008 at 10:30 PM

The Sun-Herald

Who We Are

WHO WE ARE: A city that can't be beat

COMMENTS

POST A COMMENT

Comments Terms & Conditions

RECENT ENTRIES

ARCHIVES