The Sun-Herald

Diving is the worst - some people call that and other things that go on in soccer (all sports though) "gamesmanship".

It is a long way from the meaning of the word "sportsmanship."

Bring back the latter...

• by Ian on October 06, 2007 at 10:29 PM

oh wow, disgusting stuff.... I've got to say though, you should hear some of the butch bogan mothers screaming horrible obscenities at local kids footy games... so shameful!!! What it teaches those kids I just don't know.....

• by Gypsy Rosebud Leah on October 06, 2007 at 10:46 PM

In this context of playing the game, not cheating, sportsmanship, bring back the cucumber sandwiches... could we have a few words about sledging??

• by Richard Cowley on October 07, 2007 at 02:00 AM

That Crisitiane incident is shocking. She obviouly learnt from that scum Rivaldo.

• by Jorge on October 07, 2007 at 04:01 AM

I used to get up in the middle of the night and watch games live.
I had an array of jerseys from QPR to Liverpool and a collection of memorabilia.

I became frustrated with the 'simulation' and cheating that you write about 3 or 4 years ago.

Fortunately now there are enough other sports on cable that I haven't missed watching a single game of Soccer at all.

There's 4 movie channels if I want to watch people acting.

• by danger dave on October 07, 2007 at 05:18 AM

I've just been watching the Rugby World Cup. NZ lose to France by 2 points. 30 athletes on the pitch playing their GUTS out!

I've always loved the real Football, but this plague of ninnies falling at a touch is embarrassing, disgraceful. they're even making ads out if it (ie Snickers ad)

I don't advocate for the type of hacking seen in the lower leagues either.

but surely when we're talking about the best players in the world, the creme de la creme who are setting the example, surely we can see something better than this crap.

Clearly this ninny culture is taking over at the top level of the game.

surely skilful, quick, attractive football can be athletic and powerful too?

Shame on you ninnies! You embarrass our game and Football fans worldwide!

• by Jimmy on October 07, 2007 at 07:05 AM

diving seems to be an integeral part of soccer , one reason i can't take it seriously...and it seems to be creeping into the rugby codes and aussie rules as well. the solution:ref. to look at replay,a quick inspection by an independent medico and if guilty of faking - red card . simple.

• by daniel on October 07, 2007 at 08:03 AM

spot on, unfortunately ... getting another player sent off is now considered a legitimate tactical ploy

• by ashton on October 07, 2007 at 08:48 AM

I'm over it....fortunately there is virtually no free to air football/soccer on tv in Australia anymore, there is no way I'm going to pay to watch the diving garbage. One incident you left out was the heartbreaking moment was Grosso's dive in the World Cup Game Australia V Italy....thats just plain dumb refereeing too.

• by Stoo on October 07, 2007 at 09:34 AM

Intelligent journalism. One player, from millions, does something stupid and the all game is dead.

• by George on October 07, 2007 at 10:34 AM

It's not dead just because you say it is Matthew.
Your points are good but letting a handful of disgraceful incidents tarnish the entire sport of football is cowardly.
It will always be the world's premier sport and for the most part remain beautiful. Video analysis and retrospective bans for diving is all that is required now. It's a shame it's come to that but let's face it the game is worth it.
Thanks.

• by Burrows on October 07, 2007 at 11:26 AM

I love football but I've always thought that this kind of behaviour is the biggest barrier to the sport becoming the number one code in the country. When our audiences see players in AFL and league get polaxed on a regular basis and then get up and keep playing, players like Rivaldo, Dida (and I've got top say Juninho this weekend against Victory - just a little) do little to endear the broad population to the game.

As a measure - the codes of football here use the term courage as a real indicator of a player's worth - while the world game officially tolerates cheating in place of this courage...

Good post Matt

• by Justin Barrie on October 07, 2007 at 11:39 AM

I'm a big believer in the power of one (evidently, as are the players regularly taking dives that decide games). Therefore the answer is (whilst painful for a short time) very simple. If you want diving eliminated from the game, stop watching. Then tell everyone you know to stop watching, and tell them why. Enough people stop watching, turn off their sets, don't go to games, you WILL force the hands of the administrators to change this childish aspect of the game. The game is controlled by money, which from any perspective is linked inextricably to the amount of people watching on TV and attending games in person. Stop the flow of money, even in your own small way, and watch the incredible swiftness with which the administrators will stop diving in the game. It is an absolute certainty!

• by Fred Witherbottom on October 07, 2007 at 11:43 AM

... "winning ugly".. like an Australian team has NEVER done that before... Spare us, please! Maybe you should do a bit more research on the subject before posting such comment and restricting the responsability to the Brazilian team... I think you haven't done your homework and have overlooked several other similar moments involving players from other countries, INCLUDING YOURS. It's quite annoying that some Australians keep trying to outshine years of memorable positive history in sport by overemphasizing the bad moments. Sometimes, when they have nothing to point out in the Sport specifically, they go beyond.
This is so true that readers may recall the article on The Age entitled "Here are 10 reasons why Brazil must fall to the Socceroos", where an Australian journalist attacked the whole country of Brazil, and its almost 200million people, for free, and on unrelated aspects, in the hope to lead Australian public opinion into hating Brazil (which is considered the top by many and one of the top by others in this specific Sport - in the past and still today), and win more supporters for the Socceroos.
That was so appallingly low that Brazil's Consul-General in Australia wrote a letter to the newspaper about the article expressing how surprised and offended the Brazilian community in Australia was with the attack.
And here we are once again.
You sound so victimized by these acts, that I can only get the impression that your frustration for having a trully crap Australian team (whose players, by the way, have the same kind of behaviour as mentioned above) in this sport is so great that the only way you can get over it and outshining the good teams, so you don't feel so down. This time, specifically Brazil.
But if Cameroon was the top team, it would be the same. A little too ugly strategy, don't you think ?
"But with role models like Dida, Rivaldo, and Cristiane, can anyone blame younger players for mimicking the professionals?"
Why don't you write about the bad actions of the Rugby players from your own country and dissert about what kind of example for youngsters they are ? I think you'd be able to have more content in your poorly written, unproductive article. We can then maybe also talk about denial.

I don't know too much about rugby, so wouldn't dare comment on the sport. I do know though that Brazil's players are role models for millions, maybe billions, of kids around the world. And the actions of several of their superstars are a disgrace to their national shirt. MH

• by anti on October 07, 2007 at 12:05 PM

What Dida done was pathetic. in saying that, His Club AC Milan are a joy to watch. Ill never forget the way they beat Manchester United 3-0 on the way to Champions League Glory last season. It's a shame we dont get to read much on the Italian Serie-A because they have some of the best players on the planet like AC Milan's Kaka, Maldini & Gattuso, Inter Milan's Hernan Crespo & Zlatan Ibrahimovic, Juventus Keeper Buffon & alot more.

• by Rob Mathews on October 07, 2007 at 12:34 PM

Absolutely correct Matthew, if only about ten years behind the times. The Brazilians have since the 1980s been up there with the worst proponents of conning the referee (not to mention cynical fouls), and referees and the football world in general have chosen to ignore it, preferring to revel in the wet dream of Brazilians being above it all, of being the exponents of the beautiful game. All through the WC06 match against the socceroos the brazilians were going to ground at the merest touch (or not). The sooner the football world gets over the romantic idea that the Brazilians are the premier exponents of the jogo bonito the happier I will be. They can start by rubbing out Dida for a few weeks for brining the game into disrepute. Now I'd like to see that.

• by SV on October 07, 2007 at 01:45 PM

It's a shame there wasn't a Ricardo Clark to give Dida a clothesline across the face to give him a serious cause for clutching his face. An even greater shame that there isn't a review system in place to formally punish cheaters.

It wouldn't be too hard to set one up, what with TV having such a big part to play in the top leagues. A dvd, a tv, and a table, and bam, that's all you need to find out who dived during the latest round. A 9 match ban will do.

• by Hinn on October 07, 2007 at 02:27 PM

In order for there to be any change in the game, there needs to be a dramatic paradigm shift away from the way that punishments are currently dealt out. Eg, acts of 'rough play' and dodgy tackles are generally punished more severely than simulation. The latter is generally a tap on the wrist type situation and increasingly (as we are only all too aware), gradually becomming an accepted part of the game. We all know this is one of the major reasons the game will never supplant Rugby/AFL in this country is that because our rough sporting culture derides people faking it and going down when they're not hurt. Until such point as simulation is punishable on a par with other stuff, we're ..well, stuffed.

Bring in video refs?

Under Blatter, not likely I know

• by Darp Hau on October 07, 2007 at 02:50 PM

"Butch, bogan mothers" is totally acceptable, then, unlike their obscenities?

Back to the topic, now that every match everywhere is covered by so many cameras, there has to be a way of stamping out "simulation" (no pun intended). If a dive or other simulation affects the outcome of a game (ie, by the award of a penalty or the sending off of an otherwise innocent player) then the result should be reversed retrospectively. If it merely means the player has acted like a goose to no real effect, then they should be banned for a few matches.
By the way, isn't it time we were allowed to see replays of "controversial" incidents at the live games. Blank screens while the home viewers are shown the replays are an insult to the fans to pay their money and take the time to attend matched. Grow up, FFA!

• by Jazza on October 07, 2007 at 03:08 PM

While i agree that simulation has to go.. it is very obvious when it happens... and when it is that obvious it needs to be pinged

DOnt be fooled though, if a player is clipped and gets tripped up.. it is a foul.... This is something we are struggling to grasp at the moment in our domestic competition.. which at times has way too much over-physical play

You say play-acting destroys the beautiful game.. Yes i agree with you
HOWEVER, what can also destroy the game is over-physical play.. where creative players are totally taken out of the game (even by just niggling fouls not being called) and the referee is too soft to make the decisions...
To me that is even WORSE than diving and play-acting and can completely destroy the game

• by Donald on October 07, 2007 at 04:18 PM

I love the beautiful game! I hate its gutlessadministrators who let clowns like Dida get away with their Hollywood antics time and time again and tarnish the reputation our game. What defence do I have when Dida does what he does and my mates taunt me by calling football the usual names? Not much until players like Dida get heavy fines and suspensions.

• by rick on October 07, 2007 at 04:46 PM

It's behaviour like this that make me embarrassed to be a football (soccer) player. For so long, we've had to try and shake off this image of the 'diving poofta' tag from the rest of the Australian sporting public, desperately struggling to convince the rugby and AFL-playing masses that football was to, a rough and tumble sport played by hard men with skill and finesse, not just diving prats who go down like a sack of spuds at the slightest contact. I know that we as Australians would never stoop to behaviour like this and I think Dida should be made an example of for this... digraceful

• by Justin Verco on October 07, 2007 at 05:30 PM

My conclusion is that if you get suspended for red and yellow cards, then yo should get suspended for diving. Then after players learn that they will be suspended for diving common sence would see them to stop diving

• by Joel Sleeman on October 07, 2007 at 05:56 PM

There was nothing wrong with Dida's actions that a year or so's suspension wouldn't fix!!

• by kywong73 on October 07, 2007 at 06:19 PM

And that is why i dont follow soccer.

• by Oliver Pearson on October 07, 2007 at 06:31 PM

In 2005 Dida did the same thing against Inter Milan in a Champions League quarter final. He took a delayed dive after being hit by a flare and the game was abandoned, replayed behind closed doors and Milan went through. So he has previous, as they say. UEFA will fudge their reaction and he'll go unpunished. He should be banned for life. It is a deliberate ploy to reverse the result of the game.

Yes the fan was wrong to do what he did and he's been punished. But what Dida did could actually have provoked the crowd and turned a joyous celebration into a very nasty incident. Nobody anywhere has commented on this. For this alone Dida should be booted out of the game.

• by annoyed on October 07, 2007 at 07:56 PM

You've argued your points brilliantly. Diving nowadays is ridiculous, not just from the Brazilians but anywhere.

The Boxx sending-off and the Ryan benching incident marred a great Woman's World Cup which had converted me to developing an utmost respect for it.

Though the last one could similarly go down to the natural hate Dallasites and Houstoners have for each other.

• by Bob on October 07, 2007 at 08:12 PM

In South America, Brazil's dirty actions have been known for a long long time. Unfortunately FIFA has for too long, protected Brazil up until this last World Cup.
Many of the matches they win at home are through contreversy. Point in Question Brazil v's Uruguay in the last World Cup qualifying tournament. Brazil at home, 1-0 down, goal by offside, 2 players clearly offside, yet no linesman's flag.
Watch most of their matches and you will see how they dive on top of the ball as they are seemingly fouled forcing the referee to give a free kick. They sometimes pick up the ball in their hands as they fall to the ground to force the referee to give a free kick.
Teams need to play smarter against them and referee's need to remove their biased towards them.

• by Pabs on October 07, 2007 at 09:11 PM

good topic. This is exactly why soccer doesnt deserve to be our biggest code. Im happy with it remaining a game for boys and footy as a game for men in our country. How these people can consider themselves sportsmen with any ounce of pride is beyond me. disgusting

• by matt on October 07, 2007 at 09:29 PM

I am not going to pretend that this comes as a shock. But really, if I went down like Dida, after a fairy tap like that, I would be embarrassed to call myself a man let alone a professional athlete. It won't be long before players have acting coaches to teach them how to make the dives look real.

The solution is simple. Allow the association to suspend players who are guilty of "simulation". I don't just mean players that are penalised during the match. There should be a video review of every match and any player who is caught diving should be punished. If the "simulation" is reasonably likely to have altered the outcome of the match, the match should be replayed.

• by Mr Gray on October 07, 2007 at 10:07 PM

i think you are over-reacting a bit Matthew and taking things completly out of context. Football last time i checked is not a contact sport if you want contact you don't play football you play rugby. Thats the game and many fans like myself enjoy the theatrics of the game, diving and milking penaltys is part of the game and im sure im not the only one that likes to see it.
Dida was not in the wrong mate it was the scottish nutter that ran on to the picth get your facts right,
blake

• by blake on October 07, 2007 at 11:24 PM

Cheating is right. And there's a level of bureaucratic cheating going on amongst the clubs and officials who protect the dismal behaviour of these players. Dida's dive wasn't the first of the match. Milan won their (only) goal through a penalty decision based on an earlier dive.

Regardless of how angry they make us, I believe that it's not up to cheating players to clean up their act - that's like asking cyclists to self-regulate performance enhancers. The issue should be simple for football's governing bodies.

Players should be assessed post game for cheating, and if determined to be cheaters, should be banned for three matches and have their names added to a list of shame published at the end of the season. If they offend repeatedly they should face lengthy spells on the sidelines.

Imagine a game where players feared to go down? The name Freddie Ljungberg - a combative Swedish midfielder who stays on his feet, to his credit and advantage, no matter what - springs to mind.

• by David on October 08, 2007 at 12:38 AM

Yes I think that,that type of behavior is desgusting and it doesn't do the game any good, but what I would like to know is why do you always mention it when south americans do it, the italians do it (best) remember the penalty against Austalia? I think that all professional players should be fined and suspended from playing.

• by Cesar Marti on October 08, 2007 at 03:45 AM

So is there any suggestions to get rid of this? FIFA don't seem to think of any.

In my opinion, the only way will be post match reviews and citing divers. Harsh penalties should then result.
I'm not sure what to do for a World Cup final, immediate video reviews?

• by Michael Green on October 08, 2007 at 09:47 AM

Brazil are the worst.
they are massive cheats , and they are proud of it!!
figure that one out??!!

• by tbot on October 08, 2007 at 09:57 AM

Celtic have a long history a "pitch invaders" - this cannot be disputed. Rapid Vienna anyone? This 'fan' could have seriously injured the Milan goalkeeper. Celtic should be able to control their own supporters. Severe punishment for Celtic should be the only outcome of this incident. A hefty fine and a couple of games to be played behind closed doors would act as a deterrent for wanna be pitch invaders.

• by Neil Lennon on October 08, 2007 at 10:25 AM

As a football (soccer) lover, I have one word for this problem.

Embarrassing.

• by Ames on October 08, 2007 at 11:13 AM

As a Teenager in High School (about 20 years ago) I used to sit up and watch the odd FA game and enjoy watching the skills. These were the glory days of Liverpool and Man U; 1989 Final v Everton (overshadowed by that awful day in Hillsborough); come on you reds and Ian Rush and Kenny Dalgish. We'd re-play games at lunch - me and the Greek and Asian contingent at school, plus a few other football-heads.

I gave it all up as soon as I noticed how important diving had becoming. And let's have it right. It's not simulation. And in the modern game you can't call it cheating. So let's call it diving.

Let's think about diving for a second.
Think about yourself doing it.
You would be at least laughed at if you tried to pull it off yourself at school - and quite possibly given a reason to roll around in agony as well.
Would any of us like to think our fathers did it when they were young?
And how would you feel if you watched your son writhing in fake pain to try and chisel an edge?

How do we feel about diving? Why do Soccer Fans (I've given up calking it football years ago) still condone it?

Looking for every edge is competitive, business like behaviour. But if business like behaviour is encouraged; while 'sporting' behaviour puts you at a disadvantage; then it's not a sport any more is it? It's a business. If the fans responded to clubs and players that dived regularly by voting with their wallet, then not diving makes good business sense and maybe we'll get our sport back.

Sir Arthur Conan Doyle once wrote "Endurance and courage are virtues, not vices, and brutality is, at least, better than effeminacy." (Master of Croxley, 1907.)

At the time he was writing about boxing; but I believe these principles apply to all sporting endeavour. Sport lets us express these ideals; or as fans, watch these ideals expressed. We cherish those moments of triumph that display these virtues like diamonds; so few chances are there in this world to see these rare and shining things expressed.

Those who abuse these principles steal these ideals from the sport - any sport. Diving is the utter antithesis of these ideals; making endurance, courage and cherishing brutality over effeminacy diamonds stolen fresh from the fans.

For me, the shine is gone; replaced by the lying, chiselling, and to the male eye, weakness of diving. Cheap glass is all that's left.

• by Mike J on October 08, 2007 at 11:49 AM

Hey... can we make this same valid point without the Brazil bashing? I have been a soccer fan all my life and this behaviour is not restricted to one particular team... if I remember correctly a cetain Italian player Fabio "Grotto" denied us justice with a embarassing dive at the last world cup. You have a very valid point my friend but it is rendered usless if you imply that a certain team is responsible for that behaviour.

• by Kit on October 08, 2007 at 12:43 PM

I love my Football and always will, but when players take dives it just makes me sick in the guts.
Thank God it doesn't happen in the
A-League or in the EPL as most of us Aussies only tend to watch these two leagues.
The sooner FIFA bring in a "standard" penalty of say 8 weeks for any player caught diving...the better.

• by Manny on October 08, 2007 at 12:53 PM

The best way to deal with something illogical and stupid is to ridicule it. Have a bit of fun (and it'll stop the players doing it too) The Refs should hand out little plastic replicas of an Acadamy Award each time a player does a dive.
I'll bet you won't see too many players diving after that's introduced.

• by Ross Carroll on October 08, 2007 at 01:31 PM

Feigning injury is a blight on many sports, from England's substitute fielders to the constant feigning injury in Rugby Union (yes, this is a common tactic, ask any physio - they are briefed pre-match on which player, usually a prop, will fake an injury to slow down the game. not usually noticed as tv coverage switches to an ad break).

Two points to make about diving in soccer:
1. Few things honestly hurt more than being kicked hard in the shins or ankles, but the pain is gone (or mitigated) in about 30 secs. I think a of incidents are unfairly described as diving for this reason as people go down in pain, not knowing if they've got a career ending injury or a bump, and then are able to run for the rest of the game. It's not pretty but its true.
2. It is hard to tell a dive in slow motion replays as many factors such as momentum, running style (certain of which can be learned to make it easier to fall over) and angles cn make innocuous touches cause you to fall over. Getting clipped or even swerving to avoid someone at pace can unbalance you and cause you to fall 5, even 10 metres later. Now, I know most professionals probably ahve balance and core stability to make this less common than it is for unfit amatuers like me, but I just think we should consider this before going on about instituting video replays to cane divers.

• by Ben G on October 08, 2007 at 02:19 PM

What we really need is video replays of "suspicious incidents" at the conclusion of a match... catch someone, and ban them for a number of matches. This should almost certainly reduce incidents of diving and foul play in football. We do it in so many other sports, why not the biggest one of them all? And it does not even need to happen during the game, just a "post mortem", so to speak.

• by PS on October 08, 2007 at 03:57 PM

Agreed. It is truly infuriating to see such play acting. I travelled all the way to see Australia at the world cup and in the 90th minute, the blatant cheats of Italy (Grosso in particular) win a penalty through a dive. Whats worse is that the referees havent got the guts to penalise these players.

Subsequently Australia got knocked out, was playing better football than all the other teams they faced yet nations with a history in such finals can influence refereeing decisions purely because they are "Brazil" or "Italy". The amount of poor refereeing decisions and dives over the world cup (the greatest and grandest stage of world sport) was unbelievable.

Bring in video technology, referees with some balls and boot Sepp Blatter out for his prehistoric outlook on the world game.

• by Alks on October 08, 2007 at 04:42 PM

so when are you gonna write the follow up to the away game? i love that book...

there's a lot more players out there that you can write about...please tell me that there's going to be another one? if not, what about making another i hour show of the away game with different players? maybe have it as a series on sbs?

Ah, thanks for the feedback. Great minds think alike, etc. There are plans, both for another book and a TV show on the same same theme. Unfortunately though, we are at the mercy of the Australian media, so no time frame just yet. MH

• by ender on October 09, 2007 at 11:44 AM

"Ah, thanks for the feedback. Great minds think alike, etc. There are plans, both for another book and a TV show on the same same theme. Unfortunately though, we are at the mercy of the Australian media, so no time frame just yet. MH"

that's great to hear...keep us posted...

• by ender on October 15, 2007 at 02:13 PM